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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 27, 2008 16:24:43 GMT -5
This thread's for talking about the book once you've actually read it. We all know that if you ask 5 skinheads about the scene, you'll wind up with 7 opinions, a fight, and a beer run. So, obviously, this was just George Marshall's take on it in '91 (and then slightly revised in '94). Pre-internet, this was a major document - pictures, history, style, the whole bit. Of course, you can see Marshal's bias toward the UK scene and ska in general, with almost no mention of hardcore, the American oi scene, international labels, etc. But he did tough on a lot of those in a follow-up called Skinhead Nation that you can read here: www.skinheadnation.co.uk/Frankly, I find Marshall's style a little dry. You can tell he loves what he's talking about, but what he considers fun details left me yawning. I did like the big list of ska and skinhead reggae labels. And you can still see some of his list of style and so on printed up on different web sites. So, some good, some bad, some outdated, some biased. But he got it right at the end: There is one thing skinheads should never forget. Skinhead has always stood for pride. Pride in yourself, pride in your family and friends, pride in your town, pride in your class and pride in your country. You might not have been dealt a fair hand in the game God jokingly calls life, but nobody can ever take your pride away from you unless you choose to throw it away yourself.
You can bring on all the teds, casuals, hairies, mods, and punks you want to, but there has never been a youth cult that could touch us. And there never will be as long as skinheads remember their traditions and pass them on down the line. Keep the faith and long live the spirit of '69!
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Post by surfer5 on Jan 27, 2008 16:36:33 GMT -5
My thoughts are similar to yours. Although I thought he put an disproportionate amount of weight to the music of the culture and not much on anything else. I think to a casual reader of the book, they would be left with the impression that skinheads are a well dressed and violent set of groupies (and maybe soccer hooligans). While music is definitely a huge part of the scene, it doesn't (in my opinion) justify the amount it influenced this book. There didn't seem to be almost any mention of any specific skinhead in the book but band lineups and changeups were given through out.
I also wasn't always up on his writing style. It was cool to read from someone that was there, but a lot of his anectdotes were lost on me, an American skin that came up post 2000. References to bank holidays and such were completely foreign to me (maybe i am unique in that). A lot of his slang was unfamiliar to me. It made pieces of it difficult to read.
I also was a bit surprised at the discussion on paki-bashing. I didn't know that was a part of the original culture. I thought race wasn't an issue at all but it seems, by his description, that meant that hating jews and blacks wasn't a part of the original culture but bashing asians was. I had to reread that section a couple of times because it honestly floored me.
Overall, I thought the book was good and a quick read. I thought the pictures were really fun and I definitely learned a thing or two. But I think its target audience may have been a much smaller scope than a global economy (like maybe UK skins or people already familiar with UK skins) and people outside of that group, and certainly anyone with not background or history on skinheads, might have trouble following some of the stuff in it.
Anyway, I was a bit dissappointed by the self-titled Skinhead Bible. It wasn't that at all (in my opinion). But it was a good read and provided a lot of intesting history and was written by someone that was there in the beginning. That in and of itself warrants picking it up.
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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 27, 2008 16:49:24 GMT -5
I also was a bit surprised at the discussion on paki-bashing. I didn't know that was a part of the original culture. I thought race wasn't an issue at all but it seems, by his description, that meant that hating jews and blacks wasn't a part of the original culture but bashing asians was. I had to reread that section a couple of times because it honestly floored me. You didn't know that? Yeah, East Indians, etc were an easy target, so they caught hell from a lot of early skin gangs. You see a lot of parallels to that today with American skins who will tell you they're not racist against Latino folks, but they hate all illegal immigrants (and then they assume that anyone in the US who speaks Spanish is an illegal Mexican immigrant).
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Post by surfer5 on Jan 27, 2008 17:32:09 GMT -5
Yea, I didn't know that. I really thought that it was just hooligan good fun, sharp clothes, and good times. I knew there were violence and such, I just didn't know that a race of people were targeted. And when it said that they were targeted because, not only were they taking jobs (probably more of the reason) but because they wouldn't fight back...that came off as weak. I don't know. It bothered me.
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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 27, 2008 17:49:12 GMT -5
Skinheads have never been boyscouts. Skinheads are, by and large, assholes. When you get a bunch of working class guys together, rile them up with beer and loud music, and set them loose, no one's going to wind up blameless. I mean, who do you know that picks fights they know they'll lose?
That being said, shit, no one's defending "paki bashing" (or gay bashing, etc), obviously. But it's certainly part of our history.
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Post by surfer5 on Jan 27, 2008 23:30:00 GMT -5
oh, i have no delusions about the amount of aggro and violence in the original skins. that wasn't my point. none of that surprised me. i just didn't realize it was targeted at any specific race. that was all i was saying. i always thought the original skins were more like the SHARPs of today and was surprised to find out that they weren't. in fact, when i talk about skins and their connection to racism (which is what everyone thinks of when they think skinhead), i always say the original skins weren't racist; that was something brought up by the national front. now i have a slightly different take on that. that's all i'm saying.
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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 28, 2008 11:59:24 GMT -5
Well, yes and no. They weren't specifically racist, they just tended to be teenage assholes who would attack any easy target when they felt like it. And even that was different from crew to crew. Organized racism didn't come into the scene until the national front and so on.
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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 30, 2008 9:13:45 GMT -5
Hey Shane, you read this thing yet?
And Jacob - I also have the first three Joe Hawkins novels, if you want to borrow them. Pure pulp skinhead sleeze.
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Post by debster on Jan 30, 2008 10:18:26 GMT -5
And Jacob - I also have the first three Joe Hawkins novels, if you want to borrow them. Pure pulp skinhead sleeze. i think you got everyones attention with this one.
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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 30, 2008 10:43:40 GMT -5
I'll bring them with me Friday. It's just one book, they're combined into one. And, I'm telling you - Joe Hawkins is no good guy, but that's kind of the point. He's the ultimate scary skinhead from that era, as presented to the pulp-novel-buying public.
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Post by debster on Jan 30, 2008 12:25:24 GMT -5
sounds awesome. i'll have to put it on my reading agenda. i'll bring american gods with me. damn awesome book, but the ending? lacked.
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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 30, 2008 13:09:02 GMT -5
Hey now, we're hijacking this thread, too!
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Post by debster on Jan 30, 2008 15:12:16 GMT -5
my bad... my bad.
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Post by sharpie marker on Jan 30, 2008 15:15:41 GMT -5
Get Shane to finish up Spirit of 69 and hand it over.
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Post by debster on Jan 30, 2008 15:30:40 GMT -5
i'll do that. no, on second thought i'll just get him to give it up. i only have so much time on this earth to wait for that man to finish a book. hehe! but on a side note, i think all of the threads tend to branch off, just a bit. what do man thongs have to do with music? but yeah, spirit of 69! can't wait to read it! (hint, hint, shane!)
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